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	<title>Comments on: Toronto Theatre &#8211; Is it just a bunch of friends playing together?</title>
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	<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/</link>
	<description>Megan Mooney writes, thinks, and informs about Theatre</description>
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		<title>By: megan</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-47</link>
		<dc:creator>megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Aug 2008 18:51:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-47</guid>
		<description>@Sam - I just meant I was cutting off the conversation between Michael and me, I&#039;m more than happy to get a million more comments on this thread.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Sam &#8211; I just meant I was cutting off the conversation between Michael and me, I&#8217;m more than happy to get a million more comments on this thread.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-46</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 Aug 2008 23:33:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-46</guid>
		<description>@Michael - 

I know Megan said she&#039;s cutting off the discussion but ...
Maybe I&#039;m the only old person reading her blog right now.

You lost me when you said &quot;or the over age&quot;.  

WTF is an overage theatre goer?  I&#039;m 58.  Am I allowed to come to Summerworks?  

Based on your off-hand reference to the &quot;over age&quot; I suspect that if I do I&#039;m going to feel like Marshall. “I do have to say though. I have come to a few summerworks shows over the years and feel like I am an outsider at someone else’s party.”

And you know what?  I&#039;m not so keen on feeling like that.  Paying money to feel like that makes no sense to me at all.

It&#039;s not your ads or videos - I haven&#039;t seen them and therefore have no opinion - it&#039;s your offhand dismissal of a large part of the populations - and of potential theatre goers - that bothers me.

It&#039;s theatre for god&#039;s sake.  As you said, it should be fun.  For everyone.  Losing the elitism would be a huge gift for everyone, players, producers, directors, authors, audience, everyone.

C&#039;mon.  Even old people deserve theatre other than big main-stream shows.  

Sam</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael &#8211; </p>
<p>I know Megan said she&#8217;s cutting off the discussion but &#8230;<br />
Maybe I&#8217;m the only old person reading her blog right now.</p>
<p>You lost me when you said &#8220;or the over age&#8221;.  </p>
<p>WTF is an overage theatre goer?  I&#8217;m 58.  Am I allowed to come to Summerworks?  </p>
<p>Based on your off-hand reference to the &#8220;over age&#8221; I suspect that if I do I&#8217;m going to feel like Marshall. “I do have to say though. I have come to a few summerworks shows over the years and feel like I am an outsider at someone else’s party.”</p>
<p>And you know what?  I&#8217;m not so keen on feeling like that.  Paying money to feel like that makes no sense to me at all.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not your ads or videos &#8211; I haven&#8217;t seen them and therefore have no opinion &#8211; it&#8217;s your offhand dismissal of a large part of the populations &#8211; and of potential theatre goers &#8211; that bothers me.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s theatre for god&#8217;s sake.  As you said, it should be fun.  For everyone.  Losing the elitism would be a huge gift for everyone, players, producers, directors, authors, audience, everyone.</p>
<p>C&#8217;mon.  Even old people deserve theatre other than big main-stream shows.  </p>
<p>Sam</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Rubenfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-42</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Rubenfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Aug 2008 15:49:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-42</guid>
		<description>http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/theatre/2008/08/noises_off_oh_canada.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/theatre/2008/08/noises_off_oh_canada.html" rel="nofollow">http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/theatre/2008/08/noises_off_oh_canada.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: megan</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-41</link>
		<dc:creator>megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 03:00:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-41</guid>
		<description>I am enjoying the back and forth, but I think we&#039;ve started going in circles, so I&#039;ll wait for another opportunity to debate with you.  *grin*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am enjoying the back and forth, but I think we&#8217;ve started going in circles, so I&#8217;ll wait for another opportunity to debate with you.  *grin*</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Rubenfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-40</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Rubenfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 19:09:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-40</guid>
		<description>But that&#039;s just it.  Having Fun WAS the ad.  That was the promotion.  Come have fun at SummerWorks.  It is marketing towards an aesthetic.   Think of it like a music video, or a short.  Talk to someone who thought the ad was very effective, and ask them why.  I would still argue that it was really successfull.  Its gotten alot of people excited about it.  Alot of it is marketed internally.  An inside joke.  This one, anyways.  If WE, as a community are excited about something, then other people will come.  If someone in theatre has the attitude &quot;SummerWorks .. whatever&quot; nobody cares.  If someone in theare has the attitude &quot;SummerWorks?  AWESOME!&quot; or &quot;SummerWorks.  I HATE THEM!&quot; either way, someone in our community having a strong opinion about what we are doing, which, in turn, will incite interest from other people.  Mirvish became as popular he did, partly because he was so damn in love with the theatre, that people wanted to be a part of what he was doing.  That&#039;s the strategy.  Have an opinion.  Share it.  Garner interest.  That&#039;s what&#039;s happened.  I can&#039;t imagine these ads deterring someone from coming to a show.  I mean ... really? Sure. Boycott.  &quot;Are you going to SummerWorks this year?&quot; &quot;After those ads, no way!&quot; ... I mean, really?  REALLY?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But that&#8217;s just it.  Having Fun WAS the ad.  That was the promotion.  Come have fun at SummerWorks.  It is marketing towards an aesthetic.   Think of it like a music video, or a short.  Talk to someone who thought the ad was very effective, and ask them why.  I would still argue that it was really successfull.  Its gotten alot of people excited about it.  Alot of it is marketed internally.  An inside joke.  This one, anyways.  If WE, as a community are excited about something, then other people will come.  If someone in theatre has the attitude &#8220;SummerWorks .. whatever&#8221; nobody cares.  If someone in theare has the attitude &#8220;SummerWorks?  AWESOME!&#8221; or &#8220;SummerWorks.  I HATE THEM!&#8221; either way, someone in our community having a strong opinion about what we are doing, which, in turn, will incite interest from other people.  Mirvish became as popular he did, partly because he was so damn in love with the theatre, that people wanted to be a part of what he was doing.  That&#8217;s the strategy.  Have an opinion.  Share it.  Garner interest.  That&#8217;s what&#8217;s happened.  I can&#8217;t imagine these ads deterring someone from coming to a show.  I mean &#8230; really? Sure. Boycott.  &#8220;Are you going to SummerWorks this year?&#8221; &#8220;After those ads, no way!&#8221; &#8230; I mean, really?  REALLY?</p>
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		<title>By: megan</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-39</link>
		<dc:creator>megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 14:41:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-39</guid>
		<description>Oh, by well done I don&#039;t mean the esthetic at all.  I mean achieving the goal of the piece.  So, I think the challenge here is not that it didn&#039;t meet it&#039;s goals, but rather that the goals were unclear.  People don&#039;t seem to be seeing it as an &#039;inside joke to remind people that the festival is coming&#039;, they seem to have thought (as did I) that this was really meant as a piece of marketing.  A piece of marketing (which, I would argue is very different than a piece of art, although it certainly has artistic elements)should have some clarity in what it&#039;s trying to do and say.  And I agree, there is no one ad that is everything to every one, but in my opinion (and it&#039;s just that, there are no absolutes here) even if it&#039;s marketing people hate, they should understand what it&#039;s for.  

The pieces certainly did achieve the goals of &lt;i&gt; “let’s have a laugh”, and “let’s see what this does” &lt;/i&gt;.  No question there.

&lt;i&gt;&quot;At the end of the day, we created the ad because it was fun for us and we thought it was funny. It pissed a few people off, but its also lit a fire and excited others. Like any piece of art, it will please some and not others.&quot; &lt;/i&gt;  - Then, if it was just about having fun, then absolutely it was a success and well done.  And if it&#039;s a piece of art, then more power to you.  My commentary has only been about it as a marketing tool, and I think you&#039;ve made it pretty clear that it really wasn&#039;t about promotion.  So, you know, good on ya, I&#039;m always in favour of people having fun.

Okay, now I&#039;m late for an appointment.  :P</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, by well done I don&#8217;t mean the esthetic at all.  I mean achieving the goal of the piece.  So, I think the challenge here is not that it didn&#8217;t meet it&#8217;s goals, but rather that the goals were unclear.  People don&#8217;t seem to be seeing it as an &#8216;inside joke to remind people that the festival is coming&#8217;, they seem to have thought (as did I) that this was really meant as a piece of marketing.  A piece of marketing (which, I would argue is very different than a piece of art, although it certainly has artistic elements)should have some clarity in what it&#8217;s trying to do and say.  And I agree, there is no one ad that is everything to every one, but in my opinion (and it&#8217;s just that, there are no absolutes here) even if it&#8217;s marketing people hate, they should understand what it&#8217;s for.  </p>
<p>The pieces certainly did achieve the goals of <i> “let’s have a laugh”, and “let’s see what this does” </i>.  No question there.</p>
<p><i>&#8220;At the end of the day, we created the ad because it was fun for us and we thought it was funny. It pissed a few people off, but its also lit a fire and excited others. Like any piece of art, it will please some and not others.&#8221; </i>  &#8211; Then, if it was just about having fun, then absolutely it was a success and well done.  And if it&#8217;s a piece of art, then more power to you.  My commentary has only been about it as a marketing tool, and I think you&#8217;ve made it pretty clear that it really wasn&#8217;t about promotion.  So, you know, good on ya, I&#8217;m always in favour of people having fun.</p>
<p>Okay, now I&#8217;m late for an appointment.  <img src='http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: Michael Rubenfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-38</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Rubenfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 04:05:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-38</guid>
		<description>So, what would a &quot;well done&quot; video be?  I&#039;ve gotten a ton of people telling me they loved the video.  And there are a ton telling me they hate it.  We did them the way we wanted them to.  

I&#039;m not particularly interested in most populist anything.  (except cirque de soleil, because that&#039;s just MAGIC!)  I am, interested in what makes me laugh and what makes me cry and what makes me upset and I&#039;m pretty sure that my job, as the Artistic Producer, is to find ways to share my aesthetic with the festival.  There will be those who share my aesthetic, and those who don&#039;t, and that is key. Norman Armour, who runs PuSH (in Vancouver) has created a festival that is wildly popular, mostly because of his devotion to what he loves.  It is that devotion, it is that energy, that helps the festival live.  We&#039;re going to program or create stuff that some people love and some hate.  We believe we&#039;re successful as long as you&#039;ve got an opinion about it.  

People don&#039;t come to theatre when its boring. (not that theatre is ever boring.  ever.)

All we can try to be is &quot;not boring&quot;.

Geez.  And this is only my first year.  Wait till next year!  Then things will really start to get interesting :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So, what would a &#8220;well done&#8221; video be?  I&#8217;ve gotten a ton of people telling me they loved the video.  And there are a ton telling me they hate it.  We did them the way we wanted them to.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not particularly interested in most populist anything.  (except cirque de soleil, because that&#8217;s just MAGIC!)  I am, interested in what makes me laugh and what makes me cry and what makes me upset and I&#8217;m pretty sure that my job, as the Artistic Producer, is to find ways to share my aesthetic with the festival.  There will be those who share my aesthetic, and those who don&#8217;t, and that is key. Norman Armour, who runs PuSH (in Vancouver) has created a festival that is wildly popular, mostly because of his devotion to what he loves.  It is that devotion, it is that energy, that helps the festival live.  We&#8217;re going to program or create stuff that some people love and some hate.  We believe we&#8217;re successful as long as you&#8217;ve got an opinion about it.  </p>
<p>People don&#8217;t come to theatre when its boring. (not that theatre is ever boring.  ever.)</p>
<p>All we can try to be is &#8220;not boring&#8221;.</p>
<p>Geez.  And this is only my first year.  Wait till next year!  Then things will really start to get interesting <img src='http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: megan</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-36</link>
		<dc:creator>megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:24:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-36</guid>
		<description>BTW Michael, I have no idea why your comments keep coming back to me for moderation, it&#039;s supposed to just be the first time you comment and then it&#039;s supposed to approve them automatically.  So, if you comment and there is a lag in it showing up it&#039;s &#039;cause I&#039;ve taken a break from the computer (oh come on, it happens, sometimes, no, really, I&#039;m not *always* at the computer - oh who am I kidding, you won&#039;t experience any lag...)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW Michael, I have no idea why your comments keep coming back to me for moderation, it&#8217;s supposed to just be the first time you comment and then it&#8217;s supposed to approve them automatically.  So, if you comment and there is a lag in it showing up it&#8217;s &#8217;cause I&#8217;ve taken a break from the computer (oh come on, it happens, sometimes, no, really, I&#8217;m not *always* at the computer &#8211; oh who am I kidding, you won&#8217;t experience any lag&#8230;)</p>
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		<title>By: megan</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-35</link>
		<dc:creator>megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:21:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-35</guid>
		<description>@Michael - don&#039;t worry, I&#039;m an ass-(wo)man, so it&#039;s all good.  :P

You&#039;re right, of course I have an opinion, it&#039;s impossible not to have an opinion.  But my opinion is that there was nothing in the videos that moved me either way.  They didn&#039;t move me to defend them, they didn&#039;t move me to defaim them.

So, my opinion, I suppose, is &quot;meh&quot;.

I have no problem with the idea of them being out there, I&#039;m just not particularily excited by it either.  So, you&#039;re right I do have an opinion, it&#039;s impossible not to, indifference is an opinion.  I&#039;m not doing it to avoid conflict, I&#039;d say that there&#039;s conflict here, and I&#039;m partaking in it.  (and yes, conflict does not equal bad)  And I knew as soon as I posted this, and my comments on the video, that it would spark conflict.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and indifference is just indifference.

What I&#039;m interested in is the reaction the videos have gotten from the community.

I&#039;m also interested in the conversation that you and I are having.

I like knowing the thinking behind the bits, and would argue that maybe they weren&#039;t well done if it was so difficult to dissern those were the purposes of the pieces.  Sometimes we can be a bit to oblique for our own good as humans.  

And I&#039;m with John in saying bravo for going for it.  I certainly don&#039;t wish that these weren&#039;t made, I&#039;m loving following this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Michael &#8211; don&#8217;t worry, I&#8217;m an ass-(wo)man, so it&#8217;s all good.  <img src='http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_razz.gif' alt=':P' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>You&#8217;re right, of course I have an opinion, it&#8217;s impossible not to have an opinion.  But my opinion is that there was nothing in the videos that moved me either way.  They didn&#8217;t move me to defend them, they didn&#8217;t move me to defaim them.</p>
<p>So, my opinion, I suppose, is &#8220;meh&#8221;.</p>
<p>I have no problem with the idea of them being out there, I&#8217;m just not particularily excited by it either.  So, you&#8217;re right I do have an opinion, it&#8217;s impossible not to, indifference is an opinion.  I&#8217;m not doing it to avoid conflict, I&#8217;d say that there&#8217;s conflict here, and I&#8217;m partaking in it.  (and yes, conflict does not equal bad)  And I knew as soon as I posted this, and my comments on the video, that it would spark conflict.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, and indifference is just indifference.</p>
<p>What I&#8217;m interested in is the reaction the videos have gotten from the community.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m also interested in the conversation that you and I are having.</p>
<p>I like knowing the thinking behind the bits, and would argue that maybe they weren&#8217;t well done if it was so difficult to dissern those were the purposes of the pieces.  Sometimes we can be a bit to oblique for our own good as humans.  </p>
<p>And I&#8217;m with John in saying bravo for going for it.  I certainly don&#8217;t wish that these weren&#8217;t made, I&#8217;m loving following this.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Rubenfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/2008/07/toronto-theatre-is-it-just-a-bunch-of-friends-playing-together/comment-page-1/#comment-34</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Rubenfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Jul 2008 03:11:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.mooneyontheatre.com/?p=128#comment-34</guid>
		<description>Why don&#039;t you have an opinion?

Opinions are important towards a thriving culture landscape.  If one has no opinion, and idea can never flourish.  

I often feel like Canadians choose to remain indifferent so as to avoid conflict.  Its not conflict we&#039;re after.  Its discourse.  Its discussion.  Its taking an idea and evolving it.  

I don&#039;t believe that you don&#039;t have an opinion.  My opinion of that is that you&#039;re just trying to not get too involved.

Have an opinion.  It&#039;s more interesting.

(I&#039;m just being an ass now.  You can ignore me if you like.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why don&#8217;t you have an opinion?</p>
<p>Opinions are important towards a thriving culture landscape.  If one has no opinion, and idea can never flourish.  </p>
<p>I often feel like Canadians choose to remain indifferent so as to avoid conflict.  Its not conflict we&#8217;re after.  Its discourse.  Its discussion.  Its taking an idea and evolving it.  </p>
<p>I don&#8217;t believe that you don&#8217;t have an opinion.  My opinion of that is that you&#8217;re just trying to not get too involved.</p>
<p>Have an opinion.  It&#8217;s more interesting.</p>
<p>(I&#8217;m just being an ass now.  You can ignore me if you like.)</p>
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